Curse

Cobalt · Nov 14, 2008, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Just go to Aspenwood!

With 5 minutes shaved off the timer the Kurzick side owns Aspenwood, holding back Luxan for a whole 5 minutes is cake! It is super easy Kurzick faction plus you get Balth faction as well so easy ZKey acquisition along with it, a total win/win for the Kurzick side!

xanarot · Nov 14, 2008, 03:31 PM // 15:31

Well, it isnt impossible.

BUt with the nerf to HFF you are looking at about 83 HM books as fastest option. Considering people got a life, 2 missions rely on the opponents group (so some will fail) you're looking at 2-3 books per week if you dedicate yourself. Thats only 28 weeks or 1/2 year of dedicated playing gw for a single title.

HFFF was max kurz in 200h for those that are capable to solo it (ofc would've been faster now due to less travelling for turning in faction), which based on the same time expense as above and 1 book taking 6h (18h/week game time) comes down to approx 11 weeks.

So, no its not impossible... but unless we find out what was introduced that is comparable to HFF most pve people will never look at kurz/lux lines again.

Venom200 · Nov 14, 2008, 03:50 PM // 15:50

I for one welcome this change, I have never done HFFF and I am proud to say that. Although now this means that all the noob HFFF will be doing AB's and FA/JQ, and hence it is going to be much more frustrating at first. I suppose that these people will actually have to either forget about the title, vanquish, or actually aquire pvp skill.

And yes, I realize that AB and FA/JQ is not real PVP but mear pseudo-pvp

Destro Maniak · Nov 14, 2008, 03:55 PM // 15:55

ofc it is

anytime anet promised a nerf it became worse
now who can compleate a HM shiro storyline without extraordinary effor/cons
You need extraordinary organised heroes and another friend to dual with for some hard HM missions and it will still take longer because remember FFF GAVE DOUBLE points(if you donate=)

Aera Lure · Nov 14, 2008, 03:57 PM // 15:57

HFFF was insanely monotonous as an activity. Its good they added options other than HFFF, and that is welcome. I disagree with the OP. Its very possible to complete the Kurzick title. Perhaps even easier now than before, but that is debatable. The actual level of grind ~ 90 times completing a HM book or endless hours vanquishing over and over ~ is still a very high level of grind, and vanquishing monotonous once you get into the routine for such a long term goal.

cognophile · Nov 14, 2008, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sjeng

QFT. I have 9 protectors, of which 1 is also guardian. I sincerely hope the community pressure will be so big Anet will decide to make them retroactive.

I also have a character with legendary guardian and several others with protector of cantha, and was annoyed to see that no book-like credit was given for those past accomplishments.

As others have pointed out, the kurzick and luxon titles are still very grindy. I suppose that makes it fair to people who have already maxed them.

On the other hand, that raises the question of why the HFFF quest should be nerfed if it would be no faster than the new faction farming methods. Probably, to cut off all the gold it was bringing into the game.

[Morkai] · Nov 14, 2008, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shasgaliel

Would you care to post a pic or link to Urgoz clear done below 20 min or slightly above?

I know Deep can be done 17 min but Urgoz no way in my opinion.

Fastest we did it was 26mins when i was in the team. HM. Urgoz isn't hard. Especially when abusing cetain skills.

Banane-O-Man · Nov 14, 2008, 04:18 PM // 16:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

Yeah right. Shame all my 14 character have gone through Factions from beginning to end. I've cleared all the four games with most of them. Had the books been retroactive, fine, I would have paid to get one book filled and then I would have started over... But they aren't, because devs "are worried about economy". Well, thanks to whoever decided we shall also get money by giving books in.

I'm not gonna AB anymore, I've been ABing so much it makes me sick now. So, what's left for people like me? Vanquishing. Vanquishing AGAIN. Or grinding books. Or giving up with this title

Books could have been the most viable and welcomed solution form me. Still, I'm not gonna play HM Factions 40 times now.

Just to tell you, when you win in kurzick side in Fort Aspenwood you get 2500 Kuzick faction plus the one you earnd during the match.

Kook~NBK~ · Nov 14, 2008, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera Lure

HFFF was insanely monotonous as an activity. Its good they added options other than HFFF, and that is welcome. I disagree with the OP. Its very possible to complete the Kurzick title. Perhaps even easier now than before, but that is debatable. The actual level of grind ~ 90 times completing a HM book or endless hours vanquishing over and over ~ is still a very high level of grind, and vanquishing monotonous once you get into the routine for such a long term goal.

You've got the "options" part right. But none of those options present and either/or situation. I wouldn't go through the factions missions 90 times, or vanquish the same places over and over and over again. It seems like everyone's missing the fact that they put the variety in to break up the monotony! I have every intention of doing different things to gain faction, Urzog's, Vanquishing, ABs, etc. Why limit myself to one kind of grind - that's just too dull.

Aera Lure · Nov 14, 2008, 04:33 PM // 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kook~NBK~

You've got the "options" part right. But none of those options present and either/or situation. I wouldn't go through the factions missions 90 times, or vanquish the same places over and over and over again. It seems like everyone's missing the fact that they put the variety in to break up the monotony! I have every intention of doing different things to gain faction, Urzog's, Vanquishing, ABs, etc. Why limit myself to one kind of grind - that's just too dull.

You raise a good point I couldnt do it either, before this update, with just HFFF. The concept of doing that for 400 hours just amazed me. Astonished me, really. Never did it, even though I toyed with it multiple times.

It is true now that one can approach the title from a variety of directions, and that is the most sane course. When attacking such an overwhelming goal, the tendency is to get a routine and do it over and over, honing your focus, figuring the faction/minute and using that to motivate you that you only have X hours left.

I cant do it though. We dont even need to go beyond level 4 in the title track for HoM. That being the case, the actual max level grind of this track should be lowered. That level of grind as a requirement isnt healthy. Its almost shame on Anet for implementing something so tedious, and raises an eyebrow, and that was all that I was saying - that the title still had a ton of grind. You're completely right that you can approach it through multiple courses, and that's what I'd do too, if I could stomach pursuing that track.

Miss Puddles · Nov 14, 2008, 04:43 PM // 16:43

did you not read the massive list of OTHER ways to get faction now?

Sacratus Ignis · Nov 14, 2008, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Urgoz hm with perma and cryers is a 25min run. Physway is 35-40mins same with FoC spikers etc

nikkooo · Nov 14, 2008, 05:18 PM // 17:18

complete 90 times the Shiro's Handbook[HM] is so much easier than grinding hfff for 34235135135 times...

Narcissia · Nov 14, 2008, 05:27 PM // 17:27

the OP is insane right? they took away 1 way(to discourage botting more than anything i think) and made/buffed multiple other ways. they just require a bit more effort (or paying for a runner i suppose). quit being lazy.
maxed kurx, time for lux now. rawr.
id also like to see this ~20min deep/urgoz build lol.

FengShuiDove · Nov 14, 2008, 06:07 PM // 18:07

K, well let's take a cursory glance at Vanquisher as well. Vanquishing the entire Kurzick side nets - following avg. # foes according to official wiki - 1,718 foes for a MINIMUM 86,000 faction. With boss bounties and other factors, that's a plausible 100,000 FACTION, which is the happy kind that doubles when dropped into title. If it takes an hour to vanquish each area, which is again incredibly pessimistic, you've got a minimum of 172k title points for completing the whole side, over 7 hours is ~24.5k/hr. Much more likely is the 200,000 for completing the side, in 7 hours is 28.5k/hr. and, if you can pull off vanquishing the whole side in 6 hours, or about 51.5 minutes per area, congratulations, you've hit a whopping 33.3k/hr. toward the title. That's massive. It's 67% faster faction gain than HFFF and comes, again, with chests, IDs, experience, and a pittance of gold.

Now, let's take two cases. For each, we'll consider 200k (title points) for completing the 7 areas:

1. Vanquishing those 7 Kurzick areas with each profession, or 10 characters.

-This nets 2M on the title track, requires NO repetition on each character, and takes around 70 hours or 3 days for 1/5 of the max. Again, looking at the lower rate, it's 2M for the title in 60 hours, you're looking at 2.5 days for 1/5 of the title. This is another attainable rate.

-Doing this once on each character, or filling the 2M faction, you're down to 67 HM books, not including ANY Urgoz, FA, AB, etc.

2. Maxing the title grinding out VQ until it's done.

-10M would be 5 of the aforementioned full runs. So for max you're talking 12.5 whole days, or comparable to the slower time of the book farm run at 7 hour completion time of each full VQ of the Kurzick side. At the 7 hour completion time per, it's 14.6 whole days.

================================================== ==========

For Urgoz, if you get 12k Faction for a completion, if it takes an hour you're hitting 24k title points/hr. If you finish it in half the time (30 min.), ummmmm... I want to say 48k title points per hour? Ouch. That's an insane, INSANE rate of faction gain, and if you have a good group that could consistently clear Urgoz in 30 minute intervals from 0-max rank, it'd take you 8.68 days to finish the title.

Needless to say, a lot of this is untested. It does, however, offer alternatives that are EASILY equal to the rate of faction gain from HFFF, if not FAR superior. Later on I'll try to get around to analyzing FA and AB, which can be done by anyone and doesn't require HM.

Hailey Anne · Nov 14, 2008, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApocalypseAzza

stop moaning, its brought some life back into the game, more people doing mission. now people will play the game properly

Not really.
Most people will do what they always did
Rush through with H/H.
No new life.

Damian979 · Nov 14, 2008, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by FengShuiDove

K, well let's take a cursory glance at Vanquisher as well. Vanquishing the entire Kurzick side nets - following avg. # foes according to official wiki - 1,718 foes for a MINIMUM 86,000 faction. With boss bounties and other factors, that's a plausible 100,000 FACTION, which is the happy kind that doubles when dropped into title. If it takes an hour to vanquish each area, which is again incredibly pessimistic, you've got a minimum of 172k title points for completing the whole side, over 7 hours is ~24.5k/hr. Much more likely is the 200,000 for completing the side, in 7 hours is 28.5k/hr. and, if you can pull off vanquishing the whole side in 6 hours, or about 51.5 minutes per area, congratulations, you've hit a whopping 33.3k/hr. toward the title. That's massive. It's 67% faster faction gain than HFFF and comes, again, with chests, IDs, experience, and a pittance of gold.

Now, let's take two cases. For each, we'll consider 200k (title points) for completing the 7 areas:

1. Vanquishing those 7 Kurzick areas with each profession, or 10 characters.

-This nets 2M on the title track, requires NO repetition on each character, and takes around 70 hours or 3 days for 1/5 of the max. Again, looking at the lower rate, it's 2M for the title in 60 hours, you're looking at 2.5 days for 1/5 of the title. This is another attainable rate.

-Doing this once on each character, or filling the 2M faction, you're down to 67 HM books, not including ANY Urgoz, FA, AB, etc.

2. Maxing the title grinding out VQ until it's done.

-10M would be 5 of the aforementioned full runs. So for max you're talking 12.5 whole days, or comparable to the slower time of the book farm run at 7 hour completion time of each full VQ of the Kurzick side. At the 7 hour completion time per, it's 14.6 whole days.

================================================== ==========

For Urgoz, if you get 12k Faction for a completion, if it takes an hour you're hitting 24k title points/hr. If you finish it in half the time (30 min.), ummmmm... I want to say 48k title points per hour? Ouch. That's an insane, INSANE rate of faction gain, and if you have a good group that could consistently clear Urgoz in 30 minute intervals from 0-max rank, it'd take you 8.68 days to finish the title.

Needless to say, a lot of this is untested. It does, however, offer alternatives that are EASILY equal to the rate of faction gain from HFFF, if not FAR superior. Later on I'll try to get around to analyzing FA and AB, which can be done by anyone and doesn't require HM.

No no, but you don't understand. It's Impossible now

/endsarcasm

The Meth · Nov 14, 2008, 07:26 PM // 19:26

QQ moar. It was impossible before unless you were a bot. Now its slightly more possible if you do lots of vanquishings, AB and elite mission stuff.

MithranArkanere · Nov 14, 2008, 08:09 PM // 20:09

Look for a zone with 400 enemies and 6 bosses and two quests and Vanquish it.
You'll get:
400*50= 20.000
+500*10=5000
+250*6=1500
+800 for the quests.
That makes 27,300 points.
Oh, my...

I prefer ∞ times that than any stupid repetitive way that bots can make better than humans.

Kook~NBK~ · Nov 14, 2008, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Look for a zone with 400 enemies and 6 bosses and two quests and Vanquish it.
You'll get:
400*50= 20.000
+500*10=5000
+250*6=1500
+800 for the quests.
That makes 27,300 points.
Oh, my...

I prefer ∞ times that than any stupid repetitive way that bots can make better than humans.

What's the +500*10? By my reckoning 400 enemies +6 bosses in Hm would comes out like this;

400*20 = 8,000 (initial kill)+
6*250 = 1,500 (bosses)+
406*50 = 20,300 (vanquish bonus)+
800 (quests) =
30,600 faction*2 = 61,200 points!

Oh my! Oh my!